Vitamin D Isn’t Just a Vitamin: Dr. Barbara Barrett on D3, K2 & Long-Term Health

In this episode of The Integrative Continuum, Dr. Richard Rocker is joined by Dr. Barbara Barrett, Doctor and PhD in Natural Medicine, researcher, educator, and specialist in longevity, healthy ageing, and nutritional biochemistry.
This conversation takes a deep dive into one of the most widely recommended, yet still poorly understood nutrients: Vitamin D.
Dr. Barrett explains why vitamin D should not be viewed simply as a basic vitamin, but more accurately as a hormone-like regulator involved in gene expression, immune function, inflammation, calcium metabolism, bone health, neurological protection, and healthy ageing.
A major part of the discussion explores the relationship between Vitamin D3 and Vitamin K2, especially the role of K2 in helping direct calcium away from the arteries and toward the bones. Dr. Barrett also discusses the importance of other cofactors such as Vitamin A, magnesium, healthy fats, and proper gut absorption.
The episode also covers why vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency are so common in Ireland, the UK, and other northern climates, the limitations of relying on sunlight alone, the confusion around testing and dosage, and why fear of vitamin D toxicity may often be misunderstood when cofactors are ignored.
You will also hear a broader discussion around fat-soluble vitamins, cholesterol, gut health, antibiotics, fermented foods, sourdough, sun exposure, seed oils, astaxanthin, cardiovascular health, and why modern nutrition advice has often left people confused and undernourished.
Topics discussed include:
•Why vitamin D acts more like a hormone than a simple vitamin.
•The difference between vitamin D testing units in Europe and the US
•Why testing vitamin D may be useful more than once per year.
•The relationship between D3, K2, calcium, bones, and arteries
•Why vitamin A and magnesium matter in vitamin D metabolism
•The role of vitamin D in immune regulation and chronic disease resilience
•Why northern climates increase the risk of low vitamin D.
•Sunlight exposure, sunscreen, skin tone, body fat, and vitamin D status
•The difference between natural sunlight and artificial light exposure
•Why fat-soluble vitamins need good dietary fats.
•Vitamin K2, cardiovascular health, calcification, and healthy ageing
•Gut health, antibiotics, absorption, dysbiosis, and nutrient status.
•Why fermented foods and traditionally prepared foods may support health.
•Astaxanthin, sun tolerance, and antioxidant protection
•Practical starting points for people confused about vitamin D supplementation.
This is a practical and mechanism-based conversation for patients, clinicians, and anyone interested in understanding how vitamin D, K2, fat-soluble vitamins, sunlight, and nutrition influence long-term health.

Disclaimer:
This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The information discussed should not replace care from your GP, consultant, or qualified healthcare practitioner.
Vitamin D, Vitamin K2, and other supplements may not be appropriate for everyone, especially for individuals with kidney disease, calcium metabolism disorders, sarcoidosis, hyperparathyroidism, cardiovascular disease, those taking blood-thinning medication, or those under medical supervision for chronic illness.

Connect with Dr. Barbara Barrett:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbarbarabarrettphd/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-barbara-barrett-phd-0532221b8/
Email: barrettbarbaraann@gmail.com

Dr. Richard Rocker Contact Info:
Website: https://rockerclinic.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drrichardrocker/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RockerClinic
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-richard-rocker-589127/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You've landed at the edge of what medicine has known and what it's becoming. I'm Dr. Richard Rocker, and this is the Integrative Continuum, a podcast bridge of biology, energy, and human potential. In each episode, we explore how quantum biology, frequency medicine, and ancient healing systems are transforming our understanding of health. This is where mitochondria meets meaning, and blood work meets bioenergetics. Subscribe now and join me on the frontier of integrative healing, where science and soul are no longer separate. Welcome back to the Integrative Continuum Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Richard Rocker. As always, I stand by the truth as I know it and as I learn it. The purpose of this podcast is to explore health, medicine, science, and human potential with an open mind while always trying to stay grounded in mechanisms, clinical experience, and meaningful conversation. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Dr. Barbara Barrett. Dr. Barrett is a doctor and PhD in natural medicine, researcher, educator, and specialist in longevity, healthy aging, and nutritional biochemistry, with a particular focus on vitamin D, vitamin K2, and their role in chronic disease prevention. She has a background in holistic health sciences and advanced postgraduate training in natural medicine, with doctoral work exploring areas such as the microbiome, chronic disease mechanisms, and integrative health strategies. Dr. Barrett is recognized for her ability to translate complex biochemical and nutritional science into practical, clinically relevant strategies that can support better long-term health outcomes. She is also a formulator and educator, contributing to targeted nutritional protocols aimed at supporting metabolic health, immune resilience, and healthy aging. In today's conversation, we'll be diving into the fascinating world of fat-soluble vitamins, especially D3 and vitamin K2, and how these nutrients influence calcium metabolism, cardiovascular health, bone integrity, neurological protection, immune regulation, and chronic disease risk. One of the key ideas we'd like to explore is that vitamin D may be better understood not simply as a vitamin, but as a hormone-like regulator that influences thousands of genes and many of the biological processes connected to aging, inflammation, immunity, and resilience. This is especially relevant here in Ireland and other northern climates where limited sunlight exposure can significantly impact vitamin D status across the population. So today we're going to unpack what people need to understand about vitamin D, vitamin K2, testing, supplementation, safety, deficiency, and the broader role these nutrients make play in the long-term health. So, Dr. Barbara Barrett, welcome to the integrative continuum.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Hello, Doc Rock. So nice to be here. Thank you. And thank you for that lovely introduction. Boy, have we got a lot to cover.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

We do. It's it's uh, you know, vitamin D is uh, I think it's a very controversial topic. When you listen out there, you hear some people going, uh, vitamin D is great, and some say it's no, you shouldn't take it, and you're gonna end up with this problem and that problem, and then the others are saying, well, you should only get it from the sun. So I'd like to clarify that for people because I'm sure they're in the same boat. So, okay, so vitamin D is one of the most widely recommended nutrients, but also one of the most debated, like we just said. So, why do you think something so commonly discussed is so poorly understood?

SPEAKER_02 3:57

I think it's because of the confusion, even in the medical world, that um it is considered necessary, but there is a fear as well when it comes to vitamin D, and that's a lack of knowledge. That am I gonna have too much? Can I take a supplement? Is it going to do anything for me? Is it going to harm me? So I think it's misunderstood because of lack of knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, yeah. And uh, you know, it's often treated like a basic supplement, but it's it's a little bit more complex than that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 4:31

It is. You know, the wider consideration is about bones. And um, we're aware of that because for many, many years we've known that lack of vitamin D can become a problem for bones. But then we know on the sideline a snippet, or the greater public and even some medical professionals, about the fact that it's going to increase your calcium intake. And therein comes the scary bit. So um it's it's not known that it's so broadly effective, and it's not really known how it works, as you say, like a hormone and not just as a vitamin. It's going to do a whole lot more than people realize.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where do you think the biggest confusion lies? Testing, dosage, toxicity, sunlight exposures, or the cofactors like K2, magnesium, or the fact that we can even still call it a vitamin. Where do you think all the confusion lies? Or maybe it's a bit of everything?

SPEAKER_02 5:36

It is a bit of everything. Um, firstly, the fact that a lot of the literature and the science that's coming out of America has a different measurement. So in Europe, we're measuring those nanomoles, and in America they're uh measuring nanograms, and people don't realize there's a difference, and then they say, oh, the numbers are too high. Um, I think the measurement is really important. There's also a problem with the fact that here in Ireland, docs have been told by the labs don't measure the vitamin D unless you've got an osteoporotic client. Why you're doing it, we don't want to incur the cost. So then they put on the limitations of measurement. But they don't realize that actually vitamin D has that three-week approximate life in your cells, and therefore it can change so quickly. If we get a cold or something where we're using up the vitamin D for the immunity, that vitamin D becomes depleted. So testing is important. And I, if you had the money to do it, and if your doctor's going to do it for you, I would recommend minimum twice a year, but change of season is quite good to do it, you know, maybe even three times or four times a year so that you know where you stand, how much you can take. But of course, that relationship with vitamin D3 and K2 is very important. And it's so sad that even the medical profession doesn't realize you cannot really take too much vitamin D if you've got vitamin K2 with it to point the calcium in the right direction. And it's this concern about toxicity. If you sat in front of a doctor and said, So what is toxicity? He may not even be able to answer the question. They'll just say too high. But the research and the lack of time spent on saying, what is toxicity? Well, toxicity is possibly the fact that you're going to get a high calcium into your bloodstream. Does that matter if one, it's the right calcium, and two, if the bloodstream is sufficiently loaded with vitamin K2? No, it doesn't matter because K2 is going to say, don't let it sit in the arteries, take it to the bones. Then we have strong bones. The K2 is required also for the knitting of the calcium onto the bones. So it's imperative that those two get uh suggested together, that you take the two together. And you can even in the summertime when you're exposed to a lot of sun, take extra K2 or take K2 on its own. If you're out on the beach and you're not one who puts factor 50 on, you're going to make some vitamin D3 sufficient. Yes, you are, absolutely. You still want to take your K2, especially if you're an active person, because the body demands the K2 regularly for a lot of other reasons besides the bones and the heart and the and the blood vessels.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I think the important thing for people to understand is that every nutrient doesn't work by itself. It has a synergistic counterpart. And I think this is what's not being discussed. So, yeah, if somebody took high levels of vitamin D by itself, could there be some calcification? Probably, there probably could. But like you said, mixed with the K2, it helps it to get in to the cell, convert properly. And then I think also we look at vitamin A is an important component in that as well. And again, well, people go, well, I I just eat my carrots. And I'm going, well, that's not really vitamin A, that's more beta-carotene, and your body is not really good at converting beta-carotene. So we have to look at vitamin E in a retinol form, which automatic automatically means it's coming from animal-based fats. So right away, then you bring in the whole diet tobacco, and uh people are getting their their hair up in a frizzy, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah, absolutely. For sure. I think that this is where we have a challenge, is with vegetarians and vegans that we have some of these vitamins uh can be low and depleted, and we need to overcome that fear that we say, well, really, do you want to go for decades until you have something that's now chronic? Um, and we have a problem. So you're absolutely right. The fat-soluble vitamins work synergistically, and vitamin A in that form is really important for so many things as well. So when we get back to vitamin D acting as a hormone, not just a vitamin, partly that's because vitamin D can get into the cells no problem through the VDR receptor, as we know. It's going into the cell through the cellular membrane. Cellular membrane being a double lipid layer gets in. But once it's in there, it cannot get into the nucleus, into the genes to go for vitamin D to say, well, now I want to have these vitamin D response elements. You and I know this. I don't know if we're talking to professionals or to just um clients here, but it's important. It's a mix of both, right? So it's important to explain both. Vitamin D will not get into the nucleus without vitamin A. They act as um, it's what they call a heterodimer. So your vitamin D receptor, VDR, requires vitamin A, the RXR, retinoic acid receptor, and they work synergistically together and they go in together. They kind of chaperone each other into the nucleus of the cell. Now, why is that important? That's because that is where vitamin D acts as that hormone, and it's not just a cofactor for enzymatic processes, it acts as a hormone to turn on and off the correct genes. And there are thousands of them, but a lot of what's important here for us is the immune genes. And so you need both together. And a lot of people would be uh deplete or insufficient in their vitamin A. Those people you're saying, where we're not converting the beta-carotene. So there is a genetic SNP. I did my genes, I have that SNP. It's about 50% of Caucasians and Europeans are not converting beta-carotene into the active form of vitamin A. And vitamin A is really important for the eye, retinoic acid, for the retina, for the skin, um, and for uh immunity. And it acts together in the bones as well. It actually helps vitamin D in the bones. And when you're making your osteoblasts, you need vitamin D, vitamin K, and vitamin A.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Excellent. Yeah, that's the the magic trio. The magic trio there, yeah. So then to recap, vitamin D, it helps uh receptors throughout the body. It helps gene regulation influence on many biological pathways. Uh it affects the bones and plus a lot more, and it has a role in immunity, inflammation, endocrine regulation, neurological health, and aging. Did I get it all right?

SPEAKER_02 13:23

You did very well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Great. So so obviously this is an important nutrient to have. So when we hear it uh kind of brushed off aside in the media, you really need to start wondering uh uh, you know, about that. And um maybe it's not all intentional, maybe it's just a lack of knowledge on how things work. And I think, like we said in the beginning of the of the podcast, you know, in the northern climates like we're here in Ireland and some of the other places where we don't get as much sun, um, maybe we do need to rely on supplementation uh and uh also picking the right foods uh as well that have them. And uh this is probably why uh some of us don't have the genes here to convert properly, because our genetics were never really accustomed to that. Uh, you know, maybe if we were born south of the equator, uh there might be a little bit of a difference, right? So we have to rely on our foods a little bit more. And uh the way I see it is the more northern-based you are, the more on an animal-based diet uh you need to rely on in order to get the nutrients. And I think that makes sense when you when you really consider things.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

It does. And a lot of the the good fats that we get are coming from the animal-based diet. I mean, and a lot of the um the B vitamins are coming from the animal-based diet. And uh yeah, vitamin D in in the northern hemisphere. If we're um the first of all, six months a year we're not getting enough sun. Secondly, we have this fear of the sun, and we've been told to use factor, some factor 30 or 50 when we go out, or we cover up and we wear long sleeves. Now, where are you going to make that vitamin D if you're not exposing the skin to the UV light, the UVB light? And um, it's during a certain part of the day as well, because otherwise the the sun gets at such a low angle, you're not getting enough of that angle of the sun for long enough to make it. If you have a darker skin, you're having to actually probably supplement with vitamin D because you're not making as much in your skin. The melanin is blocking that light. If you are overweight, you're probably storing some of that vitamin D in the fat cells. So it's not being that available in your blood, in your serum to the body when it needs it. Um, so there are a lot of reasons why we, and I mean, even though we're nearly at summer, I'm looking out there and we have a gray sky. So they're certainly not going to make any vitamin D today. Uh the other thing is, you know, when they measured how much we do make, when you take, they took surfers and they took uh even the Maasai Mara, who are very dark skinned, but when they are in the sun all day, most of the day, they're going to make a minimum of what they call IU, 20,000 IU international units. They give that measurement because that is the effective part of the vitamin D. So they're going to make that 20,000. Then naturally the body's going to say, you've made enough for today's stock. Now we get given this limit by the regulators that like up until last year, the year before in Europe, it was 4,000 IU. Now they've said we're only allowed to put 3,000 IU into a supplement because we're expecting you taking a thousand from your diet. Well, that isn't always true. Who's eating those eggs? Who's eating those the fish livers and things like that where you might be getting it?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Absolutely. Especially, especially in the mainstream when those foods seem to be demonized all the time, right? Uh yeah, get it from your diet, but don't eat these where where it's already in, and it's uh it's a little bit of a catch-22 there. Um so yeah. Um I think you know the the light is is definitely important. And I think now in the modern days, we're surrounded by so much more artificial light as well. Um we've got LED lights everywhere, we're in our phones, we're in our computers all the time, and everybody has the the bigger and bigger giant TV screen in the house, and we're just bombarded. And and uh I think that must have the opposite effect on us. Um it obviously doesn't have a positive effect on us.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Certainly, and and we do know that from a mood perspective, that um it if you're going to have the the light that's going to be um artificial, your mood is going to go down. So that wonderful thing about get up in the morning and try and face the rising sunlight and getting it in your eyes, first of all, that's gonna raise your your mood and start triggering your circadian rhythm, which is then gonna get the body ready to when the sun comes higher in the sky, that we can then absorb the UVB and convert that very important cholesterol in the skin to our vitamin D. And that's what we would call a pro-hormone because it precedes the active form. So I don't know if this is a good time to talk about that pathway. Sure. Um, so it does take those three steps. It first of all has to be made in the skin. We've heard all the reasons why we're not always making enough in the skin. Uh, then that goes to the liver and that gets converted to a kind of a storage form of vitamin D. And that uh storage form, that middle vitamin D, it just happens to be 25 hydroxy, but that is the one that we measure when we do a test. We're saying this is how much you've got in storage available to you to convert to the active form. Right. So it's only once it gets either into the kidneys, and this was the up until a little while ago, we thought it was just those three steps skin, liver, kidneys, and then you've got the active form 125. But now we know that it's also being converted in some of the cells, especially the immune cells. That uh we've the sciences has become aware of this, that we're converting our vitamin D in the immune cells as well. Really important. Um of course we know all that needs magnesium. Uh so when we take vitamin D as a supplement, we're also taking that middle section. Now we do need to convert it because we can't measure what's in the cells. You can't go and do a biopsy and measure what's in the cells. So we measure what's in the serum that's available for conversion to the final stick.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah. Um I think testing vitamin D, it can be tricky. Like you said, there's the storage form, and I think people need to be aware that it is a storage form, the 25 OHD. Um now that there is there is an active form that you can do, but the issue with it is not a lot, a lot, a lot of labs test it. Um, and the ones that do, you will pay for it. You think the standard vitamin D is expensive, you'll you'll you'll see how this is. Um I did it, um I did it last year just out of curiosity, just to make sure I had everything on track, which it thankfully it is. Um but I think outside of it, you mentioned magnesium. I think looking at magnesium levels or maybe red blood cell magnesium levels can be helpful. And I think another unknown for a lot of clinicians is looking at parathyroid hormone in regards to calcium and uh more what's happening with active vitamin D levels. Do you have any information on that?

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Well, I agree with you. There's there's also very little discussed about the parathyroid. Um, is that operating more in the gut when it comes to absorption as well? That the parathyroid is giving a signal how much must I absorb? So between that and the vitamin D, the calcium that's being absorbed in the gut is always getting a signal from the HPA axis. And we're saying now you need more calcium, and therefore you need to absorb it. And then that conversion is really important, as you say. And some people have SNPs in the VDR receptors, in the conversion, in that sort of way. And that's why the testing's really um a large part of being confident that you have enough vitamin D for all those reasons. And that calcium story, we also know that it's the calcium that's flowing in the blood, if you do that calcium score, you know it should be very, very low. Why? Because it shouldn't be sitting around in the blood vessels. It should be going to the bones or the kidneys will be taking care of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah, absolutely. And when I look at bloods, at least for for myself, anyways, when I look at minerals on a blood test, and if I see they're elevated on there, my my thought process is, well, you it's not that you have too much. I'm going, well, if the minerals are should be intracellular, then my question is, well, why is that not going inside of the cell? And then again, we have to look at absorption factors. Do we have the right uh cofactors along with it to absorb properly? Or maybe the liver, you have a fatty liver and you can't convert and store your nutrients properly, or maybe your digestive system, maybe you're not producing enough uh enzymes or hydrochloric acid in that. So I think it's not always a simple answer, is it?

SPEAKER_02 23:48

It certainly isn't. And you know what I'm finding, and I'm sure you are too, Richard, there are a lot of people who are on an antibiotic every six months. Um, and therefore, if and I have clients, and I'm sure you do have to, whose gut is totally compromised because of this constant antibiotics. And that just seems to have become part of life now. Instead of helping the body to build up the immunity and build up your own sources of immunity, we wipe the immunity out, we wipe out the gut microbes because they want a quick fix. And oh, I had to have an antibiotic because it went on for three days. And then absorption doesn't occur because we've messed up the lining of the gut, because we've cleared all those, the microbiome, who are there to make that mucus and to do some digestion. And if we're not digesting all the foods down to the most minute particle, they are passing through the gut undigested. And now we have an even bigger problem. So we have an absorption problem, or we're absorbing the nutrients before they're properly broken down. And that's not going to give us the nutrients we need.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think uh geez, but there's been a lot of discussions lately about uh intestinal permeability or or or gut leakage, and um, you know, there's you know, antibiotics are definitely um they can tend to gut lining out uh painkillers, um, even simple aspirin. You know, people are taking an aspirin every day, it might have certain benefits, but it also has a negative side to it as well. So and then if we don't have the optimal diet, uh then I could safely say that probably 80 to 90 percent of people walking around have some form of mild to severe dysbiosis uh occurring. And for those that don't know what dysbiosis is, it's just simply what Dr. Barber just said, you know, an imbalance in the gut lining, uh the tight junctions open, and then all those things that should be kept in your bowels can now leak into your bloodstream, and then boom, cytokine storm and uh uh the immune system overactivated, and it's very hard for somebody to get healthy when the body is in constant inflammation.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Absolutely. That sets up inflammation. So while we don't want to be all doom and gloom, we know that there's restoration can take place. And be really aware, I think everything is about information, information. Be really aware that if you are going to take more than one antibiotic a year or even one a year, you really need to take care of your gut. Um, there's as you say also, maybe doctors are giving out the PPIs very quickly, and that's causing an a breaking down digestion problem. And this fat phobia, you know, the gut and is made to absorb fat a little bit at a time. As we know, you get that bile pumped through into the duodenum when the gut gets a signal. I've got some fat coming down here, and then a little bit of bile gets pumped in and it takes care of that fat. And a little bit of bile gets pumped in and takes care of that fat. So we we know that you know, good fats need to be broken down, yes, but we do need the good fats. We need the good fats for so many reasons. The red blood cells alone, and all blood, all cells, that's a fatty layer around the cell, protecting the cell. Our brain is mostly fat, and our um absorption to absorb those vitamin D, vitamin E, vitamin K, and vitamin A, it they are fat soluble vitamins. So if you take them with um a bit of yogurt, uh even uh you know, uh cream in your coffee, um, some avocado, something, a good fat that will help you absorb that fat, and then it becomes more bioavailable for digestion and absorption.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really important. And it's and again, this is uh, you know, the in the last 70, 80 years where proteins and fats have been demonized, and uh now I say there's so many people that are fat phobic out there, you know, they're avoiding it because they think fat will make them fat. And I'm going, well, it doesn't really work that way. I I look at it as uh sugar makes people fat and sugar causes cardiovascular disease and the whole like. So I think there's a lot of medical nutritional myths out there that still need clarification. But I think it's it's slowly happening. So uh I think we're getting there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

We are, and those phobias, you often wonder what started and drove the phobia. You know, we hear stories like was that Ansel Keyes story, was that um chosen, you know, where maybe the study did not show what was purported to have cons to have happened. They uh cherry-picked the data.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

And was that because oh, we're now planting all these monocrops of cereal and things, and we want to actually, so often there's a financial uh behind it all, let's um sell what we've planted, and therefore we don't want people to eat the eggs. Um, oh, it's gonna give you high cholesterol, uh, and therefore people get concerned. And it it's such a big job for us to educate people that don't be scared of that cholesterol. The cholesterol is there to make every hormone in your body. You're not gonna make the hormones without the cholesterol. And the tests, as you know from testing, are they adequate? And does the general doctor just say, oh, your cholesterol's rather high? And they're looking at this total, they're not looking at the ratio, they're not looking at oxidized VLDL. You know that there's a big difference between how much cholesterol is there and the different factors of the cholesterol. I'd love you to embroider on that. Do you do those tests, Richard?

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Absolutely. Yeah. Um, of course, there's the standard cholesterol panels, um, but if somebody has any concerns that they've been told that they have a huge cardiovascular risk, or they're debating, should I go on statins or should I not go on statins? And I'm going, well, we need more information. So again, when you're used to getting a blood test that looks at it like this, where you got this tunnel vision, you're looking at 15 markers, uh, you know, versus where we might do something a little more extensive, and then we look at, well, how do all the systems relate to each other? And then cardiovascular-wise, okay, your standard cholesterol panel, then I'm gonna go, well, what what else is gonna happen there? I could look at, like you said, VLDL. I could look at apolipoprotein B and A1 for oxidized fat. Um, you know, those are good. But more importantly, what's happening with your what's happening with your insulin level, right? Testing. And when can you ever get an insulin measurement? You know, unless they suspect you of being diabetic or you are, they won't, they won't test it. And then you have to go out on your own and find it yourself. And this is more of a predictor marker for me. And interesting thing I found clinically is people that have raised insulin, they also have raised triglycerides. So I don't look at it as the LDL as the bad fat, I look as the triglycerides because the insulin goes up, the triglyceride goes up, insulin goes down, the triglyceride goes down. So is it the fat or is it the sugar?

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Correct. And once we started lowering our fat intake, we started eating more carbohydrates. The carbohydrates became, we started eating more simple carbohydrates with convenience. And now we're just driving up the glucose levels. We're starting to get insulin resistance because the cells are saying, you're taking in more than I need.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, okay, so we talked about autoimmune conditions. So should vitamin D be viewed as a primary treatment, a supportive factor, or more of a terrain marker that tells us something about immune regulation?

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Yeah, very good question. I think that, you know, we can't say primary unless we know that's the primary cause of what's going on. So, but at the same time, I do believe we all are short of vitamin D. And until it's not going to harm us as much as the literature says, or the the doctors that might you might go to and say, be careful of taking too much vitamin D, it's not going to. They, in fact, are giving you in a drug like 40,000 at a time, you know, but we're kind of as a supplement only able to give the 3,000. I say I would treat everybody, take your vitamin D, unless you're going on that sun holiday and you're exposed. You don't need to do it then. If you're out walking, cycling, swimming with no cofactor, I think you take it all the time. So I think I suggest people supplement it all the time except in the summer. And is it, yeah, of course it's a treatment for osteoporosis. Of course it's a treatment for immunity. The minute I start feeling that tickle in my throat, I'm going to take vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc, the the things that I know are going to boost my immunity. And vitamin D has to be in there primarily.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's it's it's in so many different systems, bones, the muscles, immunity, inflammation, even how uh fragile somebody is. And what what just came to mind is the big buzzword these days seems to be longevity and anti-aging. So what role do you think it plays in in aging well?

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Well, we've got this recent wonderful research that shows that uh the status of your vitamin D, if you regularly have high vitamin D, your telomeres are longer. That was wonderful to discover that. The telomeres, for people who don't know, are those little caps. They sort of sometimes refer to them almost like shoelaces at the end of the chromosomes. And every time that cell divides, those caps get a little smaller and a little smaller. And once they perish, they can't protect the genome. So that cell would die. So that's one role. But secondly, you know, we do know that um the major primary cause of death is cardiovascular disease. So for me, it's more the vitamin K2 playing that role. So if we want to lower the incidence of cardiovascular disease, we absolutely need to take vitamin K2. We're not getting it in our diets at all. The modern diet does not have enough fermented food. Yeah. And um, we're we're not having uh enough, maybe good fats to and and the fermented foods, you know, for example, the primary um the most vitamin K2 you can get is from fermented soybean, or what is often used in the supplements is fermented chickpea. So it's a fermentation process that makes it. So that's a bacterial process that's making it. So from a longevity point of view, my estimation is vitamin K2 is absolutely imperative because it's going to guard against that cardiovascular disease. It's going to guard against what are people uh getting? They're getting stents for damage in the arteries, or they're getting replaced valves for calcified um valves. And that's because the vitamin K2 is not in the diet. We don't just don't have enough. So for me, without a date, without a doubt, vitamin K2 is a daily, daily uh it's important to take it daily. You know, it's ubiquitous. We have to take it.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yeah. So when you mentioned um from soya beans, now there's going to be some people out there gonna go, ah, I'm not taking soybeans because they're gonna raise my estrogen levels or they have these very uh isoflavons that are going to harm me in some way. What what what would your comment be about that?

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Okay, so most of the supplements are not from the soybeans, they're from the chickpeas. Right. But but the but the situation is that yes, soybean is the highest GMO crop. So we do want to kind of avoid that, just like you do want to avoid those vegetable fats, the canola oils and things, because they're also very highly GMO. But the minute something is fermented, it's incredible how much more valuable it is. You know, it's like fermented cheeses, your Emmentals and your goudas and your those kind of cheeses. Yes, you're gonna have a bit of that fat, but it's all kind of a good fermentation process. So those, in fact, cheese has a bit of vitamin K2, but it's the NK4 situation. So uh, yes, I do, I even I would have a situation where I'd say, do watch soy and soybeans, but this is different. You don't want this very fast um food supplement that bringing in to to supplement your protein, you know, with these these beans that may have been a GMO crop and as you say, east driving estrogen. So if you're gonna supplement, I would say the ones that are from the chickpea.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Excellent. Yeah. And uh another another plus for fermented foods. Um and I think uh I think we have to realize that as human beings, we can't digest anything and everything. I think we like to think we can, but we can't. And one way that we can get some value out of the food is through uh fermentation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Very much so. Those lectins that come in the bean family, whether you're talking about your uh peas, beans, um, they they are very difficult to digest. A lot of people cannot digest them and we get gut problems. Um and that is where it's a little bit of a situation for vegans and vegetarians, you know, um, when you're going to be having your curries and um you that sort of thing. I if you're using a lot of the beans and uh lentils and things like that, they're not that easily digested if you don't pre-soak them or if they're not fermented.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think um traditionally, I think they they were soaked uh for for a couple days, soaked and rinsed, soaked and rinsed. And like I seen my mother, my grandmother do, they always used a pressure cooker. And that pressure cooker put a certain amount of pressure on there, which helped to break down at least some of the lectins in there. We can find that in some of the research studies. So uh but I think the problem is in this day and age, we want everything so quick and fast, you know, everything now, now, now, now. And we don't take the time to prepare our foods and fermenting and pressure cookering, that takes time. You might be doing it for hours or maybe even sometimes for for days. And uh this has uh gotten us into nothing but trouble.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

For sure. And it's exactly the same with the gluten. When we have the sourdough that's fermented for 72 hours, that's taken a lot of the digestion. It's it's taking care of a lot of the digestion, breaking down the gluten sufficient that you get less irritation unless you're actually a celiac from birth with, you know, all copies of the celiac gene. But if you have, like I am one of those who only discovered in adulthood that I was a celiac, and that is because I started getting gut problems, gut problems. I had them when I was a child, but you put it down to all sorts of other things. But as you get older and your gut is now more permeable and it's not healing as quickly and that sort of thing. And then I did the genetics and found that I had at least one copy of the HLA DQ2 or HLA DQ8, the celiac genes. Now, if I eat fermented, very good sourdough with good grains, if I'm in France or wherever, and I can digest it more easily. So that fermentation process, absolutely. If we can get good sauerkraut, you're gonna get some K2. If you're gonna get good uh fermented cheeses, you're going to get some K2. But I'd say 95% of the Western world is absolutely depleted and certainly doesn't get sufficient from their diet. And it's imperative for heart health, bone health, brain health, you know, just a little bit scientific, but you know the myelin, fatty myelin sheath that covers the neurons in the brain, there's a lipid in there called sphingolipids that needs vitamin K2 to make those sphingolipids. So if we're gonna get heart problems, if we're gonna get cognitive decline, if we're gonna get osteoporosis, aren't those right up there with the um chronic illnesses that accelerate aging?

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Yeah, absolutely. And we can see that the modern lifestyle does not really benefit uh us in any shape or form, does it?

SPEAKER_02 42:17

No, not at all. We run faster, we want everything quicker. Those our mothers used to put love into the cooking. And you know, so we got that as well. I mean, you and I know about the energy as well that goes into it, the love and care, the growing, growing it at home, the you know, everything that was done with food two or three decades ago made it more nutrient dense and um just satisfied and gave us good bones, good immunity, did everything for us, even if you had some of those carbohydrates. But there I remember my mother would say um three different colours on your plate at least. You know, now we have the young people running out and getting pasta and noodles and pasta and noodles and pasta, and that's a daily thing. Now, where are your leafy greens? Where are your orange vegetables? You know, if you're gonna have orange, red, yellow, eat the rainbow, like Dr. Munich says. Um, she's she's wonderful about the rainbow diet, you know, eating the rainbow. And if you do that, you're going to get certainly your vitamin K1. So we do need to teach people about the difference. A decade or two ago, even the pharmacists, if I said to somebody, can you take your vitamin K2? It's going to help you not get calcified arteries, the pharmacists would say, Oh no, you can't do that because you're on a blood thinner. And it's uh the vitamin K is going to, you know, counteract the medication.

unknown 43:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Well, that was true. It was a vitamin K agonist. and antagonist and it was going to the two were going to uh uh clash. So what those uh blood thinners were way back then was wafferin and sometimes there was a trade name cumidin. And uh they I couldn't admit it, but but people were getting arteries and and and blood vessels bleeding because of the waffering because it blocked the vitamin K2. So the wall of the veins and the arteries become more stiff. And when they become more stiff they start to bleed and crack and open. And now you're going to get plaque forming there to help heal and seal. And now the people with high dose cumidin and waffrin ended up with calcified arteries and that's because they didn't have enough vitamin K1. But K1 is from the green leafy vegetables. Vitamin K2 doesn't work with the blood clotting in the liver. It goes to the peripheral um uh vessel uh peripheral tissues in the body it works outside of the liver so there's both a little bit of calcium involved there but the there's all these proteins that need vitamin K2 so we know with that culcified arteries there's only one thing right there's no drug there's no other food that's going to stop the arteries from calcifying except vitamin K2 so uh that's like really important that we know that there is a difference. Nowadays the blood thinners are no longer based on that waffrin or cumidin which was rat poison and if it if we think about it that's how the rats died it made the arteries bleed um and now they have these new oral um uh blood uh thinners which are uh not working to block vitamin K. They're working on a different pathway so it's fine vitamin K2 is not going to be a problem when you're on the new the Eliquists and those uh products which are the new blood thinners which I'm sure almost all people are on nowadays those who need them.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah it's it seems like that uh the the cocktail list of drugs people come in with the clinic with I sometimes I just shake my head and I'm like whoa you know it's just way too much uh for the body to handle for the liver to handle um and sometimes when you really review it uh you you actually wonder why why is this patient on this medication in the first place? Yeah and I think it goes back to what you what you said uh a few minutes back uh you were talking about Ansel Keys and uh for people that don't really know the background story on Ansel Keys just look up Ansel Keys look up the Flexner report and uh and take a deep dive into that and you'll see how everything shifted from that time point and uh yeah it really did shift. It seemed to benefit certain organizations and that that's it. But we we're not in here for that today. It's more about vitamin D. I also want to comment you talked about fermented foods and um I think it's also to differentiate for people that um there are some foods out there that are fermented but yet they're also pasteurized as well and that that could potentially change the uh the nutritional value of that. So when I look for if I'm buying and not making my own fermented food I would look for raw unpasteurized. I think there's going to be a big difference uh in that and probably a big difference in the price as well like most things you get what you pay for. You mentioned grains uh in the bread you know and uh you know if for people that have a sensitivity for grains which I think a lot of people do and especially if you're not digesting it well sourdough bread and now it's become a big buzzword. You see sourdough bread in the restaurants and everywhere you see it down at your local supermarket. So I was curious because I know how they do it in the bakery and I know traditionally how it's done. And so I looked at the one in the supermarket and I saw it for, what was it a euro ninety nine? I said, geez that's really good price. So I looked at it and I seen about I don't know 19 or 20 ingredients in it. And then I wanted to see is there anything that shows how it's prepared and it said well it was fermented for 12 hours. So then I look at well how were these things originally made generally the grains were soaked for about three days okay and then they were fermented for at least another three days you know and then it was processed and made into bread. So even at 12 hours it's still not enough time to properly to to break that down. So at least through the properly fermented sourdough bread you're gonna unlock more nutrition of it. It's gonna be easier on your gut and like you should you should put a good layer of fat on it. Butter and we live in Ireland we got great old butter here because that will help to dampen any kind of insulin spike on it as well keep it nice and balanced and even so here we're back to the fats again healthy fats right?

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Yeah. Very much so and do you know that good butter has some vitamin K2 in it?

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

So you're gonna get some of that as well yeah you want your good fats and uh that's gonna help transport your uh your very important fat-soluble vitamins into the cells and as you say it's gonna balance out. So uh there is something to be said for the ketogenic diet um and there is something to be said for a little bit of carnivore depending on who's doing what and what your genes are doing. I don't think there's anything to be said for a simple carbohydrate diet on bread, pasta cookies cakes that is that is uh definitely going to accelerate aging and cause huge imbalances.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Accelerate aging and uh stunt growth I see parents bring their young children into the clinic and they go I I need you to find out what's wrong there. The growth is stunted or this isn't working or that and um we do blood tests um and I'm going well I don't need to talk to your child I said I need to talk to you because I said what are you actually feeding your child you know and I said you're the one that's the issue and problem here. You know you have a growing body in the growing stages and they certain they need certain types of nutrients and I said they're not getting it you know and I said that's your fault as as a parent and some parents they don't like to hear that right because it's much quicker and easier to give a kid a bowl of cereal and a bowl of pasta.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Yeah absolutely and I think you're so right there's a lack of education I do feel for the modern young people and the modern mums who may also be working about preparing food and having the time but it's also a lack of knowledge and and I remember being in the supermarket and hearing a mum and she had her trolley and there were three kids and what do you want for supper tonight? And what do you want for supper tonight? And what of course they're gonna say chicken nuggets and pizza I mean of course they're gonna say that you know I don't know my mother would put a plate of food in front of us and we ate that. Absolutely yeah yeah and then it was there was part of it that was homegrown. So uh yeah we do have a problem I know there are going to be a few people who might question you and I about the celiac and the gluten some people are saying is it the gluten or is it the glyphosate? I say it's both. I agree yeah I think we can't throw the baby out with bathwater and say it's just the glyphosate. I think we do know that the glyphosate has created a huge problem. So we need to be aware of that. And and you know we don't want our food to come to us wrapped in plastic or out of a tin that has been plastic lined. We know that as well. So whole good food and if we can do the fermented and that lifestyle is so important getting out into the sun and um getting that sunlight there's also that thing about is um when we talk about cancer and melanoma isn't it strange that so often the melanoma is starting on a part of the body that wasn't exposed to the sunlight we're aware of that you and I are aware of that but they're saying you know yes the sun can accelerate if you have burning it can accelerate that for sure we're not denying that but is there another factor there besides the sunlight which is causing the start of that that growth and then it becomes systemic and and there is an issue. So sunlight is vitally important but never burn. You know we say go out there just do your 20 minutes and then wear your hat or whatever and then build up and build up and build up so that you don't burn you just build up a lovely tan. And if people are concerned about sunblock and not using it, do you know I don't use sunblock. I have never used sunblock I take Astaxanthin and that is nature's sunblock. I don't know if you would agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Oh I I I do uh I think uh I I recommend Astethanxin to uh clients that are going on sun holidays that are worried about burning I say start taking that about two weeks before they go the only thing that I wouldn't disagree with is the amount that's required. I think the standard doses aren't quite enough um in my experience that people need around 12 milligrams a day and then they really notice the benefits and people are super excited when they come back to go like this is the first time I've never burned you know and I'm going great yeah now I look at that two ways sorry I look at that two ways one they got enough antioxidants uh value to help protect but then I also go well maybe it could also if you're burning all the time I'm going well what's happening underneath your skin if you're if the sunlight is coming through your photoreceptor cells then it's activating the essential fats under your skin maybe you don't have the right fats under there so we're back to the fats again right are we getting the right fats in the Yeah and when people hear the word vegetable oil it sounds like a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

It's not made of vegetables at all. It's made from seeds and those seeds have been genetically modified and then it's gone through so many processes you're taking in toxins. So you don't want to be taking in your uh seed oils and living on those omega-6s they're going to compromise conversion absolutely of everything they're going to can compromise the membranes of the cell because you want the membranes of the cell to have very low omega-6 not no omega-6 but in relation to your omega-3s and and the good fats um for sure we have to get away from the fat phobia and just decrease the sugars and the simple carbs that Astanthan it's such a lovely story because I think people find that they have improved eyesight as well and you're getting another one of the carotenoids there.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Yeah yeah so it's I think for macular degeneration it's uh it's really good. So the people as they're aging and I think it's happening macular generic sorry degeneration is happening earlier and I think it's because of all the artificial lights as well uh basically frying people's eyes out yeah for sure yeah hence me wearing my my funky yellow glasses now to help protect it coming from the computer all the time right lovely yeah yeah so okay Barbara so for someone listening who feels confused by all the conflicting advice out there around vitamin D, what would be the simple responsible starting point that you would recommend for them?

SPEAKER_02 56:37

I do think 3,000 is is the maximum in EU we can give them as a supplement and I say that's the minimum you should take.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

So we have you know doctors who who talk about taking up to 10,000 a day and I would say there's nothing wrong with that if you're taking a vitamin K2. There's nothing wrong with that if you're sitting inside in an office like we are all day. So I say starting point definitely your 3,000 and uh if you have had a cold or a flu your vitamin D would have been depleted take a bit more. If you're finding something's happening to you with your immune system you've used up your vitamin D. You know we know the body does do that using up what it needs to help you out of trouble. And um so I would say start with 3000 and take your vitamin K2 with it. And the K2 as well we're looking at a situation where some of the studies are saying 45 micrograms is enough. Well maybe that's only just enough if you want enough vitamin K2 to make the spinger lipids in the brain to take the the calcium into the arteries to help you with prostate hyperplasia a big important part for men those tiny tiny capillaries in the prostate can often become congested because there isn't enough vitamin K2. So there's so many areas you're going to be using up your vitamin K2. Start with um at least 180 I'd say micrograms but I I take 320 micrograms a day. So with my D3 of 3000 I take 320 K2 and you can take slightly less K2 you're gonna be okay. It'll take the calcium away from the arteries. Yeah yeah yeah I think that's uh that's a really good suggestion so if someone could only do one thing this week to improve their vitamin D status maybe understand it better what would you suggest this week if we've got gray stars take a supplement um if we've got sunshine bear your arms and legs and face and chest and go outside for at least 10 minutes and get a little little bit of a tan and work up your natural nothing better than natural and otherwise uh you know nothing wrong with a little bit of liver or a little bit of fish oil or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Excellent yeah I'm a I'm a big fan of recommending liver and I get a lot of I get a lot of strange faces when I when I say that but it is probably on the land is probably the most nutritionally dense food that you could consume would be liver uh and I think in the sea you're looking at oysters um oysters are pretty rich in nutrients as well but yeah yeah certainly the zinc that we need for our um our immunity yeah all right Barbara so last question here um so after all your years of research clinical work formulations of awesome supplements education what is the one message you want people to understand about vitamin D, K2, and long-term health the one message is we're not getting enough from our diet.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

And although there are a lot of people who are going to say do I need to supplement? Can I not take it in my diet? We are not getting enough from our diet we're not getting enough from our lifestyle I say we have to focus on daily intake of these vitally important fat soluble vitamins we do need to supplement and we need to be aware of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

That's not going to be done alone with the diet excellent great advice well I really like to thank you for your time before we uh let you go um I would like people to know how they can connect with you to find out about your work I know you're doing some seminar talks and uh I excuse me I know you formulate um some lovely supplements as well and uh I'm a big fan of your supplements and I I think you've got the right formulation there. So if somebody is interested in that how would they find out about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Thank you so much. So I don't have a financial interest in that company you know I contracted my supplementation for inlation to them. So you can get hold of me through messaging me through Instagram and you can if you need to get hold of those vitamins you can certainly get hold of me and I can get them to you. I know you also stock them and you can get them to the clients or you'd order them for them. They're also available directly from that company and from uh practitioner hubs where you can buy it as a practitioner. So um Barbara Barrett uh I don't actually have a health website confession um so through uh Instagram is probably the best way or LinkedIn and there are wonderful messaging systems on both of those social media so you can get hold of me through that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

Absolutely and we'll we'll put that in the show notes for people too so they can just uh click on that and that that will make it a little bit easier as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

Great well Barbara I I really like to thank you for your time it's been uh it was a great conversation I'm very happy that we we finally got to do this talk and uh maybe we'll have a a part two down the road sometime.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Absolutely thank you thank you Richard and I have no problem if you want to put my email address in the show notes too if anybody has any out of this talk some queries or questions I'd be happy to answer them. So thank you so much for uh the chat and for inviting me on uh to this beautiful podcast and I know that you're doing a great job and people are benefiting from it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

Well thank you and and thank you to our listeners as well for for tuning in and like always uh please like share subscribe this this is how we get the word out there in this day and age um and uh you know share it to somebody that benefits subscribe to the channel um because we have great guests coming on all the time and it's a great way to get all the health information you need right literally at your fingertips. So wishing everybody a good day and until the next time all the best and good health thank you for joining me on the Integrative Continuum. I hope today's conversation gave you new insights and practical tools for your own health journey. If you enjoyed this episode please subscribe share it with someone who would benefit and leave us a review. It helps us spread this message further. Until next time I'm Dr. Richard Rocker. Stay curious stay empowered and keep moving forward on your path to integrative health